Disc brakes on 10-bolt. -
K5BlazersPlus




























Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

R-Postbit

Collapse

Disc brakes on 10-bolt.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Parts Needed:

    Time, Money, Ambition . . . in no specific order. AND SOME GD COOL WEATHER!! But need an LS3 intake manifold.

    Disc brakes on 10-bolt.

    I don't need a 14bff for what I do, but I do want disc brakes. Have not found a conversion for a 4WD Blazer in my vintage. I do see posts on converting 14bolt axles and it seems to be sub-optimum even when done right, which I get the impression it is not the simplest of conversions. If I can get take discs on my 10 bolt I am good. I don't need the bigger axle. Thus the interest in the late model axles. They come equipped with discs factory. That said, I am going to rebuild a set of axles one way or another. Mine are 25 years old and could use some TLC.

    Throwing that out for input on the how more than the why part of the issue.

    This typing on this little tiny android keypad is a bitch.
    Last edited by Duke4az; 10-10-2014, 02:17 PM.

  • #2
    I converted my 14bff to disk brakes, but never a 10bolt.
    after doing the conversion i can say this, the bracket is the most important part.
    that being said, im not sure what size the rear 10 bolt hub would be, but i would like to think it would be the same as a front.
    im willing to bet that if you can fabricate a bracket, the rest would fall into place.
    138Modified

    Comment


    • #3
      another idea is to buy a second set of brake brackets and make dual caliper brackets
      one for brakes, one for e-brakes, per side
      [URL]http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/roces111/Jeep%20Build/CutCaliperBracket.jpg[\URL]
      138Modified

      Comment


      • Duke4az
        Duke4az commented
        Editing a comment
        Jeep looks like a lot of fun.
    • Parts Needed:

      Parts Wanted: Parts For Sale:

      #4
      Try this place . . . http://www.classicperform.com/
      I used them to convert my Chevy 12 bolt in my Classic convertible.

      Comment


      • Duke4az
        Duke4az commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks, Z. I did checkout SSBC, Stainless Steel Brake [Co], but have to call them. The show the brake setup for the GM 10-bolt but do not list the K5 as an application. Could just be they have not looked at it, so I am going to see what they have to say.

      • Zelda
        Zelda commented
        Editing a comment
        I cant believe the truck 10 bolt is any different than the Blazer. When My rear brakes go I think I'll also be looking to convert to discs. I love what it did on my old Impala. Of course it had all drums and went to all disc. So that was significant.

      • Sockalaminski
        Sockalaminski commented
        Editing a comment
        Main thing you'd need to compare on the truck vs K5 is the rotor thickness and offset. They should be the same but you never know. The conversion kits come with 5 lug rotors.
    • Parts Needed:

      Parts Wanted: Parts For Sale:

      #5
      Yeah, you might want to talk to somebody on their Tech line to see what they have or could come up with. You know its parts off the shelf.

      Comment

      • Parts Needed:

        Time, Money, Ambition . . . in no specific order. AND SOME GD COOL WEATHER!! But need an LS3 intake manifold.

        #6
        They have a truck line. They do have a number of 6 bolt packages. I was looking at the offset, but didn't have a number to compare to. When I get through this week I will give them a call and see what they have to say.

        How is offset measured or defined?

        Comment

        • Parts Needed:

          Parts Wanted: Parts For Sale:

          #7
          I would think the offset would be measured from the face of the hub. Good question to ask the tech guys though. How many offsets do they have? I'm thinking it wouldn't matter much as long as your wheel fits over the Caliper and you get the correct bracket for the same offset.

          Comment

          • Parts Needed:

            Complete 350 MEFI setup
            My Build Thread:
            '71 K5 Build for the Wife

            #8
            I looked at some of the aftermarket systems for mine. I couldn't find one for a 12 bolt that wasn't a hack job. I decided to stay with drum brakes as they work fine. My 2000 Chevy 2500 weighs in at just under 7000# loaded(right now) and stops on a dime. If I were going to look at it again, I'd go to a salvage yard and take some measurements of a later model 10 bolt. My neighbor has a 2004 Yukon XL that has a pretty slick disc/drum system on the back that looked promising. The flanges on the axle if I remember right, were different or the spacing was off. That could be remedied fairly easily. The drum E-brake setup looked simple and effective. The caliper bracket appears to be very strong. I just didn't want to take the time to do the research at the time since my build was moving along at a fast pace.

            One thing I might mention that I noticed about most of the aftermarket systems, is when the caliper engages, all of the stopping force is applied to the two pins that hold the caliper. There is no mechanical engagement of the caliper to the bracket. For example, look at the stock front bracket.


            The capliper is supported on both front and rear so that the stopping forces are transferred into the bracket without putting stress on the pins. The pins are there for the caliper to float on, not bear the force of the stop. That's the main reason I stayed with drum brackes.

            Comment


            • Zelda
              Zelda commented
              Editing a comment
              Well, it sounded good anyway...

            • Sockalaminski
              Sockalaminski commented
              Editing a comment
              See what I did there? Thread killer strikes again!

            • Duke4az
              Duke4az commented
              Editing a comment
              No, thread killing going on. Been out of touch, but want to look at my 06 to see how the fronts are built. I can see some extensive supplier contact in the future if I want to buy a bolt on kit, which I would much rather to with something like brakes than to do something too custom myself. The go-faster parts, if they don't work because of something I did, I can live with that. The Woe-down parts I don't fool too much with . . . can't live without those working their best all the time.
          • Parts Needed:

            Time, Money, Ambition . . . in no specific order. AND SOME GD COOL WEATHER!! But need an LS3 intake manifold.

            #9
            Fixed the problem. Found an '09 11.5" 14BLt FF w/discs. 3.73 gears so that worked out too. It is an 8-lug axle so I will pull the 10 bolt front from the burb and use that for the Blazer and just put the two 10 bolts from the K5 on the burb when I tow it out of here. Someone wants the 14 bolt SF from the burb so I am going to play musical axles as soon as it gets warm enough around here to make it fun.

            A short story long. There is just no credibility in the auto repair business anymore. Changed the knuckles on the front of the 06 Sierra because I wanted to level the thing out. I hate the way that 2WD GMs slope down in the front. Drives me nuts so I picked up a leveling kit from Rough Country and put it on. Well, the thing not only raised the front, it also increased the width of the wheel base by enough to cause the tires to rub on the back side of the bumper when I was turning. That really sucked when I found that out . . . 2 minutes after I spent all day swapping knuckles, brakes (pads & rotors) and shocks. Pulled it out of the driveway and heard this horrendous crunching grinding, rubbing racket. Talk about a sick to the stomach feeling. Ever had one of those moment? Of course you have, and maybe that needs to be the topic a good BS thread . . . but not now.

            So, I assessed the options and did some investigation and found that the really nice new wheels that I had put on it when i bought the truck had an offset that pushed the wheel out 37mm or roughly 1.4567 inches out further than the stock stance. Add 1/2 inch on the width of the tire and the undetermined amount that the knuckles pushed the wheels out and I had an additional 2-1/2 inches of width to the outside of the outside edge of the tread. Sitting still, or up on jack, it is impossible to see that. When you get it down and load up the suspention and try to turn, the arch that the outside edge of that tire travels through is a shit load larger than it used to be. Who knew? Well most of you guys might have but remember, I may know how to figure this stuff out after the fact, but if you can believe this, besides the wheels I put on my wife's Corolla, I have never put a set of aftermarket wheels on a car. They didn't seem to matter if they did not make it go any faster. Well, with the Sierra, I just decided I did not like the cookie cutters that were on it and I wanted some really good looking spoked wheels. Offset? What the hell is offset? I mean really, the wheels were advertised to fit my truck. Well, they did if I was going in a straight line.

            Where am I going with all of this and how does that fit with the no integrity in the auto repair industry? Well I am about to get to that.

            After stewing over what to do about the rubbing noise and not wanting to trim away the back of the bumper skirt which is what RC said I might have to do, I started looking at the wheels. I started by putting one of the old ones on the front. Fortunately I had kept them because I was going to use them for the rolling chassis on the K5 . . . if I ever get that far. Well, the old tires on the old rims worked pretty good, I had about plenty of clearance through the turning arch. So I decided that I would just take to new rims off and reinstall the old OEM rims, sell the new rims and decide if I wanted to put something else on in the future . . . future being after I sell the fancy useless rims had to have pulled off.

            With the solution in mind, execution was the next thing that needed to be done. Could I take the wheels and rims, old and new, back to the shop where I bought them and have them do it?

            Nooooooo! I can't.

            Why?

            Because the front end looked like a ruptured duck trying to walk on ice. It was in terrible need of a front end alignment after the knuckle swap, and guess what the tire shop did not do. Nope, no front end alignment. So, I called the shop I had been working with when I picked up the LS motor for the K5 because they do both front end alignment and can unmount and mount tires. A bit more expensive, but one stop shopping is always a good thing. Well, so I thought and this is where the integrity starts to come into play.

            Dropped the truck off to have the wheels swappped out. No problem, we can do that, and we will just put everything in the back of the truck when we are done. "Cool." I say. Call me when you are done.

            End of the day, I had to call them. No bid deal. Shops like that get busy and they figure if I don't call, I don't need the truck. Probably something to that, but that was not the agreement.

            "Anyway, the truck was done and, oh by the way, we did a once over on the vehicle and there are a couple of things you might want to look at and have us do." he says.

            "Oh, yeah, like what?" I say. And I get this arms length list of all kinds of things that an ordinary smoe with no mechanical understanding would be able to see.

            Now, I aint saying I am all that learned in the arts of mechanical auto maintenance, but if all of that was wrong with the truck at the same time, I had better get it resolved or I was looking at attending my own funeral if I ever turned the key on in that truck again.

            The Scorpions are rocking on the garage box. Did you know that these thin aluminum garage doors act like huge subwoofers if you crank an amp all the way until yours ears bleed? Damn, the neighbors did not have a clue when I moved in here. I have a lot of fun.

            So, back to the short shorty long.

            I pick up the truck and inspect the alignment and wheels and all that good stuff. And, I humor the office mechanic with a walk around the truck and listen to his speel on how I need to have them spend a couple of hours . . . and me spend a couple of grand . . . and let them fix the truck. Okay, thanks, I say.

            Back in the office I need to settle up, and we are still talking about all of the absolute shit that needs to be done to the truck. Now I have been working with one of these guys at the front counter since I took on the K5 project. He has a pretty good idea that there is no way in hell I am going to pay a shop rate of $104/hour to have them do a brake job, change my drive belts, or even swap out a water pump. Ever change a water pump on one of these new LS engines in a truck? The toughest part is trying to figure out how to unclip all of those damn plastic clamps that they use to tie down all of the hoses and wires without breaking the damned clamp. I am still listening to this other guy walking through all of the things that need to be done and his buddy just looks at him and then looks at me and decides he has heard enough and tells me " or if there is something on that list that you don't want to do yourself, let us know and we will take care of it for you." I am rolling on the ground laughing my ass off (ROGLMAO) from the look and the tone in his voice. But hey, I am cool. I was not in a hurry to go anywhere and I am a nice guy so I listen to his buddy politely, then I pay my bill and I head out.

            Now I do have to say, that this shop is bad ass and they do good work. A bit on the pricey side, but they do know their shit. Some of the toys that have been up on the lifts (10 of them) could run as much as a small house in parts of the less inhabited parts of this great nation we live in and burn hydrocarbons for shits and grins. However, a tire job like mine might not be really something that they have an appreciation for taking in. Not much to think about there, and that is where the integrity thing starts to come in.j

            Remember I mentioned that I am going to sell the wheels that I had to take off of the Sierra? Well, I still have them if anyone wants them.

            The truck is running fine now and I have some time so I put the wheels on CL to see if I could get a quick sale and move on. 1st day I got a bite. Took a week to hook up with the guy because he lives in East LA, which is another name for the part of Phoenix that is so far out you can see the CA border from your porch. I jest, but believe me 191st Avenue is a long way from where I stomp around. Sock lives about 1/2 way there from here and he lives on the other side of town.

            We finally set up a time when we can meet about 1/2 way . . . 40 minutes of freeway driving from my house was 1/2 way. I get there and find the guy and he likes the wheels, but he asks where the "hub rings" were? "THE WHAT?" I ask. Now I have never heard of these things. I told you before where I am coming from. I figured he did not like the wheels and wanted a way out of the deal that we still had not discussed.

            Okay, I confess, I actually learned something from the experience. 1. I learned that there is such a thing as a Hub Ring, and it makes perfectly good sense to me . . . now.

            Last edited by Duke4az; 05-09-2015, 02:25 PM.

            Comment

            • Parts Needed:

              Complete 350 MEFI setup
              My Build Thread:
              '71 K5 Build for the Wife

              #10
              Damn, I'm only two miles off the LA express. From where you are and he is, half way is my front door and I didn't hear anyone knocking. WTF? You met him half way and didn't stop and say Hi!?

              Comment


              • Duke4az
                Duke4az commented
                Editing a comment
                No, or I would have been knocking. We met at I17 & Northern. He picked it. I seriously thought about getting out further and checking on the Wife's '71. I convinced myself I did not have a lot of time. Well, in retrospect, I should have argued with myself a little more.

                Oh, and I only half done with that story. It really gets better.

            • #11
              What was the list of repairs they said you need? Do you in fact need all that done or are they trying to get some business? Did the guy take the rims? Man, I read that long short story but still don't know the outcome. Get to typing, you have me interested to hear the rest.

              Comment

              • Parts Needed:

                Time, Money, Ambition . . . in no specific order. AND SOME GD COOL WEATHER!! But need an LS3 intake manifold.

                #12
                Okay. So you got the pre-amble. Now where was I?

                So, drove 3/4 or the way out to Sock's place to hook up with this on a 96deg Saturday afternoon. When I get there, I spend 15 minutes trying to find the guy in a parking lot of a convenience store. Finally hooked up. Nice kid. What some wheels to replace the 20" rims for something, that he had bought but couldn't get to settle down at speed. Come to find out he bought them 2nd hand and the hub rings were not included. Like me he did not realize that the rims are set up to handle both domestic as well as Toyota big trucks, or 2WD and 4WD domestic hubs. Evidently the center hole diameter in the rim is set up to handle either the smaller diameter of a 2WD GM truck or the larger diameter hubs of a 4WD. That was news to me. Anyway, he bought the rims for a 2WD GM and the wheels just would not center on the hub meaning that they wobbled and shook a lot while at speed. He looked for hub rings to go with his rims and was quoted some astronomical sum ($55/ring) and he needed 4 rings. Did not make a lot of sense to me, but the translation may have been missing something.

                So we looked at my rims and realized that low and behold, I did not have those rings either. After talking to the guy for a little while it was obvious he could not use the rims without the hub rings. And I was wondering just where the hell the hub rings for my truck were located. So here is where the mechanics integrity starts to come into play.

                Like I said the deal fell through with the rims because parts that should have been there, weren't, and that did not make me happy. So during the drive back home I got to thinking about where those rings could be. You see, there were only three locations those rings could be. Either they did not get put on at the tire shop, I lost them when I rebuilt the front steering knuckles or the auto repair shop that I had swap out the tires forgot to give them back to me. Now at $55/ring, I can see how they could get lost once in a while, especially if the wheels are coming off an not going back on.

                Well, I knew for damned sure those rings were not in my garage because I had never seen them before, and unfortunately I did not remember seeing them when I pulled the wheels for the knuckle swap. And if I had lost them then, I would have only lost two of them because the rears never came off. That left the other two places.

                My suspicion was the mechanics shop, but I was not going to leave any stone unturned. It was Saturday and the time shop was still open. I was hot and tired and not feeling like taking any shit from anyone so I decided to hit the tire shop. However, before I did that, I wanted to go home and check the box of parts that I had received from the shop when I got the wheels. So I went home to check that out. What I found was 4 of the GMC center caps for the 8 hole cookie cutters and 18 lug nuts. Those lug nuts are also special because the center caps have faux nuts on them that thread onto an exterior thread on the lug nut, Hmmm, 18"? That just did not seem to add up. Gees, now I was certainly going back to the tire store.

                I headed back to the tire store. For the most part I have bought a lot of tires from these guys. Even bought a set for my father's car in, of all places, Kansas City, MO when I was stuck there last winter. So, I talked to the guy for a while and first explained that I was not really overly excited about not having the hub rings installed when the wheels were certainly designed to be installed with the rings in place. Obviously he couldn't say one way or another whether they had left them out or not, so he said he would look in the back to see if he could find some. Guess what. He didn't. Now that was a fricking surprise. So, I asked him when he was going to get them in so I could get them and so I could maybe sell the things. He agreed to get them on order and would call me when they came in. Yeah, and the check is in the mail. So that was round 1.

                Our next conversation was rather subdued but there was a small about of ire about not getting all of my parts back when they pulled the old wheel off. 6 missing lug nuts? If it has been an odd number, like 5 or 7 or something other than a full wheel set they could have possibly gotten misplaced, but 6, a full wheel set? I don't thing so. I think they just got left on the shop floor, maybe like the hub rings. So by this time, I guess I must have had the poor kid on the back of heels and he just said he would order a set and give me a call. "Okay." I said. and "I will call on Monday to see how the order is coming along." Which I did. Overall, while I did get ultimately get it worked out at the tire shop, I was a bit disturbed by the fact they had two separate defects in their service on something as simple as selling a set of times which is all the do. It will make me consider returning to that particular shop and certainly going to make me a lot more aware of the situation when I walk out of the place.

                Okay, the second half of the diatribe. Driving home after losing the sale of the wheels because of missing parts, both shops were of equal suspicion in my book. I had friends that worked in shops like that in highschool, and hey, sometime there are leftover parts that no on misses that someone else may just spend a few buck picking on the cheap, and, still under the impress that these hub rings are kind of pricey and not easy to come by, I can imagine how they might just get misplaced.

                Did I mention that I am a very trusting person? Well, I am. I trust that if someone can sell you a bridge in the desert, they are going to do what they can to separate you from your bridge fund. And remember, I am fresh of getting a laundry list of need to fixes. Fortunately, with the tire shop resolving the hub ring and lug nut issues, I was spared the hassle of having to confront the mechanics shop for the hub rings.

                So back to the repairs that are needed. Water pump, belts, rear brakes. I figured that they knew what they were talking about so I picked up an OEM waterpump, gaskets, belts and filters from Amazon. The water pump, AC Delco, was 65% cheaper than the shop wanted, and that is before labor. The estimate did include the flush, but not the fluid. I had to ask about that. The belts, again, at least 50% less even from a brick and mortor parts shop. And, oh, by the way, the labor to remove the belts was not included in the water pump replacement. Not sure how you can change a waterpump without removing and reinstalling the belts. At a shop rate of close to $100, a little double dipping on the shop labor is a good way to buy that new diagnostic analyzer. And, oh, the water pump shows no signs of leaking. I looked over, under around and through and could not find any evidence of fluid, dried up or otherwise anywhere near that water pump.

                Brakes were down to 2mm. That aint much for a set of rear brake shoes. Markup on parts and labor same thing. Now, the brake were probably in the 4-5 mm range, and the drums looked like they had little or no wear. I picked up the parts anyway and will probably do a brake job this weekend.

                No damned wonder people feel helpless when they have to have their car repaired. If I did not know something about these things and had to rely on the judgement of a professional repair shop for filling my tires with air, I would be scared shitless. Mind you the jobs that the shop were quoting may have been quoted as separate jobs, and maybe if I had it all done at one time, we may have been able to move some of that labor off the estimate. I also know that these shops don't grow or even stay in business if they don't sell their services, but if they had a clue I understood everything they were telling me it was not obvious to me that they did. If I did not understand most of what is going on, have the ability and time to do much of the maintenance on my vehicles, and had to rely on a shop mechanic to tell me what my car really needs and when, I would probably be buying a new car every 3-5 year so I had warranty and didn't care what was wrong with it . . . but I don't do new cars.

                During this entire episode, I am remembering taking my BMW to a private shop for the first time. Again a long list of things that needed to be done, one of which was replacing the clutch. The car had 50K on it I drove it to 189K and was running the same clutch. I am certain it was getting close to needing replacement, but it sure wasn't at the first Inspection II.

                So, like I said, the mechanics shop does good work, but like any place I suppose, if you walk in blind someone is going to sell you a pair of glasses. And, the tire shop, whether it was their fault or not relative to the hub rings, they did screw up the lug nuts. However, they did make it right.

                So, all in all, while the entire culmination of crap that went on was a bit, no, a lot inconvenient, it all seemed to have worked out okay. I wish I could charge my shop labor hour rate when I have to spend my time running down crap that these places screw up.

                My apologies to anyone on this forum that works in that industry, this was not a blanked condemnation. It was culmination of things that all happened within a short period of time and across multiple organizations, and it was enough of a pisser to give me something with which to entertain/bore you for a little bit of our PC time.




                Comment


                • Snowbound
                  Snowbound commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Glad it all worked out in the end. I hate hearing these kind of stories. I don't take my vehicles anywhere for anything. I had to for alignment a few times but now I do it myself at my dad's work, auto shop teacher. Good story Duke. Maybe next time you walk in that shop they'll know that they can't get away with that crap with you.
              Working...
              X